I just bought a reel to reel, after all these years of telling everyone how stupid they are if they do it!

Can Terry Witt not sort out the idlers for you?

I must admit that I prefer Revox machines to the Ferrograph machines - you can buy just about everything you need for them although new heads are getting rare now.
 
Terry was going to sort me the pinch wheel rubber, but that one small part would have been expensive, but we worked a price out. The cost of sending the heavy flywheel to the US and having 3 very large rubbers fitted would have been crazily expensive. Sadly, the resale value of the machine in top condition (which this isn't - it has scratches and marks typical of the age, would mean a maximum in A1 working condition of maybe £700 (800USD ish) That's just not economically sensible - a pressure wheel set, new flywheel rubbers and the pinch roller would be in the region of £400-500 including postage, on a machine made in 1979 - 43 years old. If in A1 condition they were in demand and were two grand or more, the investment might make sense. Even worse, Terry takes a hit on the payments from abroad, so that too adds to the cost. Freight US to UK and reverse is crazy now. Revox spares are much easier to source than Ferrograph. They're just running out, and of course the rubber parts are frequently sitting on the shelves in a puddle of goo too. One source in the UK said they were sure they had one wheel. They emailed back to say they had it, but it had stuck to the package!
 
rob aylestone said:
In my teens, I started some freelance work for broadcasters (BBC Local Radio) and of course it was all reel to reels. I started on Ferrograph Series 7, then Super 7, then for a few months Logic 7. Ferrograph were a very traditional recorder, that rarely made it out of the UK, and was built like a tank. It's only real difference being you put it into wind, and a rotary knob for setting which way and at what speed. Neat!

Then I stopped working for them for a while and when I went back the Ferrographs had gone and they had converted Revox machines - a UK company called ASC took a Revox, removed lots of knobs and the meters, leaving a new empty panel where you could splice. Presets set the input and output gain, so as levels were a standard in the BBC, you could simply hit record or play.

I really missed the machines and have been looking for a decent one, of any of the three types, for ages. Good ones are rare. Faults mainly revolve around rubber. The boffins at Ferrograph from series 7 onwards, used a rubber compound that was awful. It started getting softer, then sticky, then lumpy - so swapping these is a common fault cure, and of course the little felt pads on the head pressure arms.

I've managed to get a well looked after Logic - oddly, my favourite was the Super 7, but these still had the mechanical transport control, the logic has normal buttons.

Do I need it? No
Will it be better than anything I currently own? No
Is it small and compact? No
Was it cheap? er, No
Am I stupid? Probably

I'm collecting it Tuesday - a 4 hour drive.

Why would I buy a 40 year old mechanical recorder that uses media that cost a fortune, yet produces sound no better than the cheapest interface can manage? I have no idea. I just hope this is a one off and I don't start to be an active member of the analogue brigade. One purchase surely just makes me a casual member, not an enthusiast, hopefully. It even has two speakers in the case and a built in 10W stereo amplifier. Luxury.
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Not everything we do is logical. I love older audio equipment and if i had space a reel a reel and record player would be top of my list!!! There’s something wonderfully tactile and involving about them!
We now deal with a virtual button on a screen which is efficient but the whole process of setting them up, timing add to the experience. As for sound, the old gear adds it’s own dimension and hate to sound like some analogue nut (as i’m not) but there is a smoothness, openness to the sound they add, better probably not but more human sure. They also look great so i say enjoy it! It will of course be a labour of love to keep it going.
 
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I was going to do a video on the results of the reel to reel vs modern stuff, but as that's clearly impossible, I've done a bit of the history of the Ferrograph Series 7, Super 7 and Logic 7, and collected some photos from the net to explain things a bit, plus the pictures of the 4 track that now has a new home and the mess inside the replacement I should have got to replace it.

If you're not interested in the history - ignore it because there are no audio samples or suchlike - just the sad tale of nearly owning one.
 
I remember 10-15 years back when some people was saying that digital wasn't a good storage medium, and that tape was an excellent, permanent storage medium. CDs and DVDs were going to break down (CD rot). Hard drives were all going to crash. Nobody seemed to worry too much about rubber belts and rollers turning to tar inside their tape decks, or sticky shed tape that was being destroyed sitting on the shelf.

These days, it looks like the cloud with lots of reduncancy, is that way to store data for the future.
 
If you look at the history of recorded music - what we are currently listening to are what we avoided years back - copies of copies. Looking back at the history it was probably what? Late 60s or 70s when we started to get 20-20K flat response with acceptable noise figures. This means we really are looking at a quality recording archive of 60 years, and these machines we now talk about as 'vintage' are genuinely at risk. The people who can re-rubber these things are getting on as the machines are, and we must be approaching the point where without serious workshop skills, parts are just not going to be there. Those Teac 3340 4 track machines were really good, we had one in our first studio, but despite being a bit later, their prices are not so good as a Revox or Ferrograph - and a BBC archive department auction last week had people bidding really silly money on Studer 2 tracks. I gave up even looking when we entered 4 figures. Dozens of them too, so watch for them on ebay, but I think they may just be too expensive for people to make a profit - but a really collectable 1" Ampex Video recorder - with the full scope and vectorescope bridge was struggling to even get bids. If people do have old tapes and have not copied them, maybe waiting for the next clever media to come along, they're on borrowed time. I had the idea to get a machine or two to offer copying on - but not to be.

I mentioned in the video the Sony Elcassette - did anyone bar me have one? ¼" tape in a cassette. It just never caught on, then minidisc, DAT, the Sony Beta F1 16 bit digital tapes - CD, Laser - we really went through media, until now, the media is unimportant - only the data they contain.
 
I never fooled with Elcassette, minidisc or DAT. My first video recorder was a JVC VHS system with a linear stereo track. That was before VHS-HiFi came out. I once bought a laser disc copy of the movie LeMans, because a friend had a LD player. I had him dub it to VHS tape. I still have the LD, along with a DVD. The LD has been played two times. I never tried to use VHS-hifi for recording. I had gotten out of music and recording for that whole period.

By the time I got back into things, I bought my AW16G.
 
Never had Elcassette but I still have a Philips digital cassette machine and few cassettes. We used a Minidisc for mixdown from a Tascsam 4 track R2R. I still have two of those, one is a Grundic FCS! I have probably 50 Mds.

I have always thought the Minidisc was sidelined unfairly? The sound quality to us seemed every bit as good as CD. The format was absolutely THE best for In Car Entertainment as, unlike CD and cassette, the discs WERE really just about damage proof.

Dave.
 
We used them in theatre for ages - bomb proof and I really liked them. The Sony machines for the domestic market did pretty well used for shows, but wore out pretty quickly, the 1U rackmount ones and the 1/3 rack mount machines were so good!
 
Here we are three weeks later and I bought a redox ASC version on ebay - advertised as from the house clearance of an ex-BBC engineer who looked after things. Not tested. The pictures showed a decent set of heads, all buttons intact bar one snapped off switch. I bought it. It was delivered today - I plugged in the IEC connector and went to make a coffee. Two minutes later the smoke alarms in the office go mad and the thing is smoking like a log burner - I yank out the connector and open doors and windows. What a stink. Smells like the mains transformer - that electrical varnish sharp smell. Back in the packing and ebay OK the return, and it is back at the post office within 20 minutes of receiving it. I really think maybe reel to reels are not for me!


 
rob aylestone said:
Two minutes later the smoke alarms in the office go mad and the thing is smoking like a log burner
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I put a potato in my microwave, set it for 5 mins, then stepped into my living room for a few mins.
When I re-entered the kitchen, it was full of white electrical smoke, that I knew I didn't want to breath.
I went back to get a big gulp of fresh air in the living room, then back in the kitchen to pull the plug, and open the window.
Dead microwave in mins.
 
I have a reel to reel, purchased it in '79. Still works and I use it for tape doubling, saturation, etc. But I don't really use it, but I keep it in case I want to use it.

Because reel to reel is kind of a pain, I purchased a Sony Beta Machine. I had heard it had better sound properties than the reel to reel, so I recorded a bunch of music on it and used it for music. Now, I never really checked to validate if it were true, but the old Beta machine sounded good to me. I didn't use it much, it takes a long time to record a mix tape on a beta, and it was more convenient to grab an album and just play it.

I have never been a big fan of tape for music listening. Maybe they have a good purpose when you have 8/16/24 etc of channels, but for consumer purposes, can't see it.
 
This is just plain... WEIRD! I also had an electrical malfunction yesterday, and it was MY microwave!!! WTF is going on in this world??!!

I was nuking a halved lemon for 2:30 in a stoneware bowl for juice and stepped into my "studio" to go online for a bit, when I noticed the sound of the microwave still going well after it should have stopped. I jumped up and ran in to see the display flashing "E N D", as it should, and the carousel had stopped, as it should, but it had continued to microwave. The hum was slightly lower and meaner somewhat. None of the buttons functioned but it did stop when I opened the door. Started again when I closed it. DANG!! I had to unplug the damn thing.

After an hour I plugged it in again and everything works normally again - no apparent damage... except to the poor lemon in round one. It nearly disintegrated and the juice browned. YUK!
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When I had my 688, I mixed down to VHS stereo for awhile - nice sound. Also to my Harman-Kardon cassette deck (can't recall the model). Mostly, the VHS was good for holding hours of album music for parties.
 
rob aylestone said:
Here we are three weeks later and I bought a redox ASC version on ebay - advertised as from the house clearance of an ex-BBC engineer who looked after things. Not tested. The pictures showed a decent set of heads, all buttons intact bar one snapped off switch. I bought it. It was delivered today - I plugged in the IEC connector and went to make a coffee. Two minutes later the smoke alarms in the office go mad and the thing is smoking like a log burner - I yank out the connector and open doors and windows. What a stink. Smells like the mains transformer - that electrical varnish sharp smell. Back in the packing and ebay OK the return, and it is back at the post office within 20 minutes of receiving it. I really think maybe reel to reels are not for me!


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Did you check the mains voltage setting?

Dave.
 
rob aylestone said:
Here we are three weeks later and I bought a redox ASC version on ebay - advertised as from the house clearance of an ex-BBC engineer who looked after things. Not tested. The pictures showed a decent set of heads, all buttons intact bar one snapped off switch. I bought it. It was delivered today - I plugged in the IEC connector and went to make a coffee. Two minutes later the smoke alarms in the office go mad and the thing is smoking like a log burner - I yank out the connector and open doors and windows. What a stink. Smells like the mains transformer - that electrical varnish sharp smell. Back in the packing and ebay OK the return, and it is back at the post office within 20 minutes of receiving it. I really think maybe reel to reels are not for me!
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It probably did work when put away years ago but I'd guess that you are a victim of the notorious Rifa capacitors that Revox used. There are 3 of them in the machine. If it had been used regularly they would probably still be intact (like the ones on my B77) but if it has been stored for a while (like the A77 that I have) they'll be cracked and will smoke as soon as power is applied. Checking and replacing these capacitors before powering up should standard practice for anyone who buys a Revox.

Just found a guide to what is needed when resurrecting an old Revox


which seems fairly comprehensive.
 
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To say I’m thinking my reel to reel period is gone would be an understatement. It was a bit of a whim to even think about it and I think interest is waning now.
 
If you buy a reel to reel from an unknown source then you have to be prepared for a bit of fettling. The last one that I bought (a Fostex G24S) has needed many hours of work replacing the dodgy surface mount capacitors that they used but it worked just well enough to give the appearance of being fine when I picked it up. I think I found the Ebay listing for that Revox and, if I'm right, you had a real bargain there. The price was worth it just for the heads.
 
But Rob, just think of the audio nirvana that you're missing! :unsure:

Old audio equipment is a bit like having old cars. Sometimes the parts aren't available, you'll probably spend more than you planned, it will be nice when it's all finished, and in the end, it will sit in the garage 95% of the time except for those occasions when you just feel like reminiscing. In the end, you realize that the new Kia SUV is much more practical than that restored Vauxhall.
 
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