Can I sing? Give me a break

R

Richard Monroe

Well-known member
It just amazes me how anxious everyone gets because the instrument is *them*. How many people post up on the guitar forum and ask"Can I play guitar?" Of course you can sing. Pretty much everybody can with sufficient practice and training. Musicians aren't born, they are made. Did you play like a guitar god after a few hours of practice? Probably not, unless you are a Mozart. If you put in the hours of repetitive, relentless, boring practice that nearly every great musician has, you can sing. So just go practice already. Better yet, take voice lessons and join a choir.-Richie
 
On a serious note though, I agree with Richard. There are a few people that with all the practice in the world will never be able to sing in tune. But they are so in the minority that their very presence is a cause for scientific curiosity.
It is kind of irritating that a forum for singers has become a "What do you think of my voice, can I sing" thingy. That's why not much is gleaned from here in terms of tips and techniques.
 
Aren't you guys being just a little harsh? When we play guitar, it sounds about the same to us as it does to everyone else- not so, vocals. Our voice resonates through our heads, so what we hear is different from what everyone else hears- and when we hear our recorded voice, it shocks us- "That's ME? I thought I sounded better than that." Not difficult to understand why some are insecure about their voice.

Perhaps we could encourage posters of "How do I sound?" threads to engage in some deeper discussions, after we have answered their question.

Just a thought...
 
stevieb hit the nail on the head... we dont hear it the same as others do and everyone knows that... also when you hear your voice recorded you are doing NOTHING but going "ugh do i really sound like that?"... being a singer takes a LOT of courage a lot of practice and a lot of support and kind words... i wouldnt really have made it far as a singer if i didnt have bar randoms come up to me and tell me i sounded great. ...
 
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No, I get where Richie is coming from... there have been a few threads of the "can I sing?" variety - not "my voice doesn't sound like I imagined it would!" or "how does my voice sound?" - it's a recording website, ostensibly about recording certain types of noise, not about making the noise in the first place...

Sure, the sub forums are for special interests such as singing, guitar playing and the like, but Richie's right, you don't see people in the guitar forum going "can I play guitar?" like you do in this forum.

And I don't know that it takes courage to get up and sing any more than it does to get up and play guitar - overcoming fear, perhaps, but not courage. And if you don't want to overcome that fear... don't... the world doesn't care.

Perhaps it's just the way it's phrased but I get annoyed with the "Can I sing?" threads too... and I'm an average singer at best.
 
A lot of the time a person posting like that doesnt know if he sucks or if there's something he needs to do recording-wise to sound better... bottom line... this section of the forum is for anything singing.... how can you not expect people to ask if they can sing?

what the fuck is wrong with you people? if you get annoyed then dont fuckin read the post and/or dont go into the SINGING forum.... im not sure why you guys are trying to step on peoples toes when it comes to singing....

whats even more annoying that people appropriately posting in a forum are people inappropriately bitching about posts in a singing forum.
 
OK Bisson, don't hold back- tell me how you really feel. But that aside, I apologize if you think I sounded cruel or insensitive. What I'm really reacting to is the idea that the sound of your voice is genetically determined, something you are just born with. You either have talent or you don't, and people can hear it when you're a beginner and tell whether you can be a singer or not. That way of thinking has discouraged more singers than Simon Cowell. Most of the people who ask that question have put in far less hours of practice and training than is required to find the answer to the question. Mostly, being a professional singer is a result of years of hard work, not anything that you were born with. The answer to the question "Can I sing?" is the same for everyone. Of course you can. Have you ever taken lessons, and how many days/weeks/months/years have you invested in it?

Being a modern singer that uses microphones, as opposed to Bel Canto, has it's own pitfalls. Yes, your voice doesn't sound to others as it does to you, because you've heard it all your life muted through a bag of meat and water called your head. It's time to put on the headphones and hear what the other people hear, and deal with that until what you hear in the headphones doesn't make your skin crawl. A great part of becoming a professional singer is learning to be comfortable with the real sound of your own voice.

Furthermore, in the beginning, you will suck, no matter who you are, and the dickheads in your life will make fun of your baby steps and tell you to stop singing/practicing. The defining quality of every professional singer, whether they started at 8 or 80, is that they ignored those people and stubbornly refused to shut up. Instead, they kept singing. The point is that anxiety about how your voice sounds to others and self-conciousness about it is the greatest single barrier to becoming a singer. The sound of your voice is almost last on the list. If you need that pat on the back and some positive reinforcement to keep singing, you are almost certainly screwed. You will have to get the will to sing from yourself.

Later on, positive reinforcement will become a barrier, as people come up and tell you just how damned great you are. If you fall into the trap of believing them, the hard work stops, and you stay stuck where you are. That's where people like Simon Cowell come in, to remind you that you suck, no matter how good you really are. What's important is not whether you *can* sing, it's whether you *do* sing.-Richie
 
I can see both RM's and Bisson's points they are making, first off.

Personally, I don't have a problem with "Can I Sing?" threads, because contrary to what Richard is thinking, I don't think those people automatically think singing is some genetic ability. Instead, I think they are asking more like "Does My Singing Sound Good?" which is something everyone (especially beginners) want to know, regardless of the instrument...whether it be voice, guitar, drums, etc.

Everyone wants to know if they are improving or not...it's just a natural thing. Plus, getting unbiased feedback on your performance rocks, even if the feedback is constructive criticism.

So yeah, while I don't like the semi-sarcastic tone of the thread title, I can see RM's point. But like I said, I don't think many people are truly asking what he thinks they're asking.

My 2 cents :)
 
I can see your point, Guitaristic. Maybe the question would be better phrased-"Can I sing-yet?" There is a continuum of skill, as with any other instrument, and we all have- taste, which means that we don't agree on what sounds good. My teachers tried for years to teach me Bel Canto, and eventually I realized that their goals and mine were just not the same. They wanted me to sound like Pavarotti, and I was more interested in Dan Fogelberg, or Roger Daltrey. They did, however, teach me breath control, projection, diction, and how to use head tone and falsetto. They helped me toward my goals, but not because they really wanted to.

In the end, there *is* a sound to your voice that you can't escape, and it would be better if Willie Nelson didn't try to be Barbara Streisand, at least in public. I improved my range massively by singing Wilson Phillips for years in the car and in the shower. You won't see me try that on stage-it would not be pretty. I've learned that if your voice isn't the prettiest, it helps to have a good story to tell. You can't escape taste- I'd rather listen to Jordan Sparks than Gwen Stefani- that's just me.

My experience tells me that the more you worry about how your voice sounds, the less progress you make. It's more useful to concentrate on the technique of singing than your personal timbre. In other words, I think most would-be singers would do better to worry about how to sing, rather than how they sound. Whether you sound good is more a matter of taste than technique. When I was 16, I could sing Queen or Black Sabbath convincingly. Now I'm not 16, and I do better with David Wilcox. But what the hell, I still sing John Lennon, Alice Cooper, Don Henley, Steve Goodman. My biggest current challenge?-Skip James. Jesus, that's difficult. All I'm saying is that instead of asking "Can I sing?", it's more useful to ask, "What can I do to help me learn to sing better?". Singing is learned. It's not something you *are*, it's something you *do*.-Richie
 
Richard Monroe said:
I can see your point, Guitaristic. Maybe the question would be better phrased-"Can I sing-yet?" There is a continuum of skill, as with any other instrument, and we all have- taste, which means that we don't agree on what sounds good. My teachers tried for years to teach me Bel Canto, and eventually I realized that their goals and mine were just not the same. They wanted me to sound like Pavarotti, and I was more interested in Dan Fogelberg, or Roger Daltrey. They did, however, teach me breath control, projection, diction, and how to use head tone and falsetto. They helped me toward my goals, but not because they really wanted to.

In the end, there *is* a sound to your voice that you can't escape, and it would be better if Willie Nelson didn't try to be Barbara Streisand, at least in public. I improved my range massively by singing Wilson Phillips for years in the car and in the shower. You won't see me try that on stage-it would not be pretty. I've learned that if your voice isn't the prettiest, it helps to have a good story to tell. You can't escape taste- I'd rather listen to Jordan Sparks than Gwen Stefani- that's just me.

My experience tells me that the more you worry about how your voice sounds, the less progress you make. It's more useful to concentrate on the technique of singing than your personal timbre. In other words, I think most would-be singers would do better to worry about how to sing, rather than how they sound. Whether you sound good is more a matter of taste than technique. When I was 16, I could sing Queen or Black Sabbath convincingly. Now I'm not 16, and I do better with David Wilcox. But what the hell, I still sing John Lennon, Alice Cooper, Don Henley, Steve Goodman. My biggest current challenge?-Skip James. Jesus, that's difficult. All I'm saying is that instead of asking "Can I sing?", it's more useful to ask, "What can I do to help me learn to sing better?". Singing is learned. It's not something you *are*, it's something you *do*.-Richie
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yeah man! Good stuff. I like the way you think...it's deep! :D
 
How about a thread topic of:
"How many sour notes did you count in this passage? " Maybe add a poll with the count...
Then go away and practice and repeat the question a few weeks/months later to gauge improvement.
BTW - good posts RM - hopefully they encourage singers to look at what they sing rather than sound...
 
Oh yeah, and before somebody calls me out on my dates, I just realized I couldn't sing Queen and Black Sabbath until I was in my 20's, because it wasn't out there yet. When I was 16, I was singing The Beatles, Jefferson Airplane, and was just starting to learn The Who. And I wasn't kidding about joining a choir. It's not only a great way to pick up on sight reading, but also a great way to meet other singers and get free voice coaching.-Richie
 
Bisson820 said:
whats even more annoying than people appropriately posting in a forum are people inappropriately bitching about posts in a singing forum.
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You know what's worse than vampires ? People that believe in them.

Bisson820 said:
What the fuck is wrong with you people? if you get annoyed then dont fuckin read the post and/or dont go into the SINGING forum.... im not sure why you guys are trying to step on peoples toes when it comes to singing....
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How can you know what a post is going to actually say, regardless of the title, unless you read it ?
No one is stepping on toes of singers here. But if three out of every 5 posts are "Can I sing ?", "What do you think of my voice ?" type threads, get real, then after a while the forum becomes a waste of time. I can understand it seeming harsh. You might feel differently 3 years and 1674 "Can I sing ?" threads later.
What is a singing forum actually for ? There should be a heck of alot more discussion around various topics and because there isn't, it causes many who might otherwise be valuable here to hardly bother. Can you really blame them ? I mean, really ?
There would also be alot more encouragement of various people iat various stages of their vocal journey.
 
Lol... i gotta contain myself here cause i already got the wrath once.... but fact is... the last thing you people should be doing is detering people from posting legit questions about their singing voice in a singing forum...

i can guarantee that at least 90% of people that post "can i sing?" arent looking for a simple yes or no... they are probably asking "what am i doing wrong? am i doing something wrong or can i just not sing?"

for people to be pissed off or annoyed at people looking for that kind of help just baffles me when it is indeed a singing forum.

thats the last im sayin lol
 
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